Hello entrepreneurs and self starters, this is Rick Phillips from YEDI and you're listening to the Startup Sandwich podcast, the show that unpacks the bread winning basics, Juicy Phil journey and secret sauce of entrepreneurship. Let's go. Welcome Patrick. Welcome to the show.Thank you, Rick. It's very good to see you. I, I run into you a lot through our YEDI adventures, but let's leave that alone for now.Let's start from the beginning. If you could tell us a little bit about your entrepreneurial journey or when you started, or what made you become an entrepreneur, that would be interesting. I think my entrepreneurial journey started as a teenager.While I was still in high school, I was always trying to find ways to make money beyond a wage, so I found ways of recycling and reusing other items that people were discarding.So one example is I was in charge of, and this might age me a little bit, I was in charge of typewriter rentals in an office supply store. And one of the jobs I had was to take their serial number and document how many typewriters we had.And this is all pen and paper, pre computer, pre internet era. And I ended up with a surplus typewriter. And I brought that attention of my boss and said, hey, I've got this extra typewriter, a very valuable thing at the time. And they said, we don't see it. We don't want to know about it. So then, then I became a typewriter salesperson first move. So opportunity knocked.Opportunity knocks. Yeah, yeah. Was this in Ireland? This was in Ireland. Yeah, yeah. It was a once off thing. And that sort of sparked the idea that there's other opportunities. So I began, I guess, as a micropurner or an opportunist and sort of fed off that and tried to find ways to scale and grow and leverage other assets to become a solar pruner. There's people, the talk about, you know, our entrepreneurs made or born, or, you know, people have this conversation. I wonder what you think about that question.Well, definitely I was an outlier with my friends that they saw me as taking too much risk. They didn't understand how I have had the, I guess in some cultures that said the cuts path to go out and do it, or the cohone cohones.Yeah cohones, we can swear in different languages, not English. No, we're multicultural.Yeah yeah, so, yeah, I, I always had the, the attitude of trying. I mean, during primary school and high school, I also met with the most favorable circumstances with teachers. I was always the one pushing the envelope and asking questions beyond the curriculum.And that didn't put me in good favor with authoritative, authoritarian personalities, right, and which were many in my world in, in the teacher world. So I was used to that, I was used to being brushed off or chastise or disciplined for taking an outside perspective.So it didn't bother me when I came to entrepreneurial pursuits, because no is the biggest word and the most frequent word you're going to hear, and you just have to keep adjusting and keep problem solving to get a yes. So I think that circumstantially I, I was groomed to be an entrepreneur, whether or not you're born with it or you you, you grow into it. I'm not quite sure, but definitely a personality helps, a robust personality helps, right?Well, just by talking or listening to you, I'm reminded of other people's phrases. They say things like have a thick skin, and they say things like be resilient and right, be a risk taker, and, and think outside the box. So all of those things seem to match up with what you're talking about as well, right. And I would say that an educated risk versus just jump off the cliff wrist, right right, right, so, so educate risks so, so much more, the odds are greater, the odds are greater in your favor. That is going to work out. That's the thing that pushes you beyond the curve. And for my dad, what brought me to YEDI was that if you, if you get education to back up your informed risk taking, well, people can't relate to it because you're so informed, but is no longer risk to you because you are informed, but they don't see the depth of your knowledge or the background work you've done to make that decision.I think it's very much like professional sports. We all see that like the player, she, she goes down the basketball court and she, she puts in the basket and we go, oh wow, did you see that basket? We don't see the 10,000 rep she did before she came to the court. We don't see the decision she's making going down the court. And that's inform risk taking and puts them ahead of everybody else.So building your knowledge base so you can take a greater risk, I think, is the way to enhance your entrepreneurial success.Well said, you know, Patrick, I know you, but I don't know you. We were sort of talking about this before we started. I've known you for a few years and you know, you're very personal and you and I always talk and joking, but I actually don't know a lot about you. So I guess what I want to ask is I'm gonna ask a couple questions. You can decide how to answer them. When did you come to Canada?Why did you come to Canada, and how was it adjusting to, let's call the Canadian business landscape?Oh, great questions. Yeah, so when did I come to Canada? I came in 1988. Why so? As you know, I grew up in Ireland and the only way to get a really good job in Ireland at the time, so this is 1980s, early 1980s into late 1980s, was to wait for someone else to leave the job. And in a small town which I grew up in.Oh, she grew up in the country but the small town I did business in. You, you had to wait for people to give up their job. They walking, giving up their job. There wasn't much migration within the community.Everybody was very, uh, multi generational. The families are multi generational. They're great opportunities there. I came to Canada because it would broaden my perspective and it would broaden my opportunities.And Ireland is known as a country of immigrants, like Irish or everywhere. Like so everybody had a story about a relative who was an immigrant, went to Canada, went to anywhere in the world and came back with stories. So I wanted to explore that too.Okay. So it was part, part a bit of adventure and there was a part pursuing better career options. And how did you find the, let's talk about the Canadian business landscape. I know we could have an hour segment on just talking culture, but let's forget about that for now.In terms of when you entered the workforce here and whatever industry, was it easy? Was there complications? Was there weird things that the Canadians were doing that you weren't sure why they were doing it or etc? Right? So Canada in comparison to the Irish land business landscape was wide open.Like it was like yeah, so, so many opportunities, so many resources available that weren't available to me in Ireland at the time.In Ireland, I went to the local library as an example to get out to see if I could further my knowledge and went to go take out any business book they had, went down to the business section.There was one book on the shelf right when I came to Canada, ended up in the North York Library there beside Douglas Snow Aquatic Center. It was like 10,000 books, wow. So there was every opportunity to succeed that the depth of knowledge was there, that there's business development desk.There's this everything that you could not not try if you were interested in setting up a business. You could always fail, but you could not not try, right.So there seem to be, I mean people talk about now, anyway, people, and by people, I mean people in government or people in entrepreneurship, they say, you know the government support a lot of small business entrepreneurship that many levels. Did you find that was more or less the same in the 90s as well?Yeah, absolutely in comparison to where I came from, yeah, yeah and, and there wasn't as many, uh, gatekeepers. Uh huh uh huh you know you didn't have to appease any political or personality to get going. You just decided and kept going, so we didn't have to bribe the local official.Right, yeah, right, right yeah, you didn't have to appease them, and someone say, I'm not going to take your bread, I'm making my own bread. Right, right right yeah right yeah, um let's talk about your, your current business demo for your Reno. How did it get started?And let's talk about the foundation  of that company. Right, so it, I filled a gap, so I worked for a demolition contractor who became unionized, and unionized labor forces are way more expensive than non union labor forces.And in becoming unionized, he had to vacate all his non union clients. Those clients had had business relationship with him and me, because I was the lead guy. And they in turn came back to me and said, hey, we know your, your boss has gone on to become unionized.What about you? Will you do the same work for us? I just stepped into the gap, never say no, you're an opportunist again.Yeah, but you have to be in the game to get the pass, right, right right, you know they, there's a, some, some ancient wise saying that I don't remember, of course, something about, I don't know, a tiger waiting in the bushes, you know if it doesn't pounce on the prey because it's having a nap, it misses the opportunity.So it's right, it's you have to be aware and very, uh, astute that this opportunity is in front of you. I know that the failure button is always there, so, you know some people wouldn't do it,  so you were thrust into that.It sounds like I jumped in uh huh jumped in yeah, and how was growth in the early years? Oh, so I started out in the Pontiac Sun Fire, nice with a ladder sticking out the trunk, haha,  and temporary labor in the passenger seat.Right, right, my very first job was to go to, uh,  not Bowmanville, what's further out than Bowmanville.I can't remember Bellville, Bellville, that's my hometown. Man, thank you, that's my route to the Belleville Mall, that's my hometown, right on, I won't want  to the Quinty Mall. Yes, just proving that it's my hometown. Okay, I went there after hours to take down a hoarding from in front of a store.So like I said that temporary labor, I know employees. Yeah, the whole thing was to take down like 20 sheets of drywall from in front of a store that was opening up, has to be done at night because it's opening the next morning. Right, cleaners are inside working like mad the clean the store. Every, every brand ambassador for that store is going crazy. You can't do this, you can't do that, right? All that's going on.So funny story. Driving out, like I said, ladder in the trunk of the car  bare, barely any tools  but urine taking down drywalls is not that complicated. No electrical, no water, no structural.  Driving out with the guy and I go past Oshawa  and the guy stops and he goes, where are we going? Where are you taking me where are you taking me exactly? He had safety concerns.So obviously the temporary labor  agency didn't inform him about how far away the job was. So he was very worried. Anyway, iaps and bought him a coffee. You know everything was cool. We got the job done and came back.Yeah. So that was the early days. So it's all about failing forward, as everybody knows, it's all about  getting up again and resetting and raising your standard each time. And you have to raise your standard each time, even if it's just having two screwdrivers versus one screwdriver, right?You have to raise your standard and obviously client relationships, the whole administrative back of it back end of it the legal, the risk side of it, the same thing. You got to keep raising your standard and grow into it.One of the biggest things you can do to save yourself from drowning is don't jump into the deep end on your first try.Yeah, good advice. Yeah, yeah, and the audience that are not familiar with demo for you right now, could you give us a little bit of an idea? What are those? The product service offering? Oh, her product service offering, so primarily demolition residential demolition.We also do underpinning, which is lowering basements. We do excavation by hand and by machine,  and we build ICF insuletic concrete foundation walls. Okay, as their primary services,  the next question I have is  what brought you to YEDI.Oh my God. So, so I have a couple of I'm blessed with a couple of different diplomas and degrees,  and I was long thought I should further my knowledge again to inform my risk taking  and wanted to do an MBA,  but the, this traditional MBA is not about entrepreneurship. It's about procedure and calculating and managing, which is correct. It's correct for manager, it's not for my view, not for an entrepreneur.And YEDI  put up a program, their NBA program for entrepreneurs,  distinctly different in that, first of all, it said it was for entrepreneurs, second of all, it's been the instructors are entrepreneurs.Third of all, and shockingly and  almost like world  renowned is the fact that each of those entrepreneurs are academics. So it's not it's such an informed instructor base. It was available after hours, which meant I could keep running the business.It is available each lecture I went to, I could apply immediately within the next day or two in the business. And it was all founded on well thought out curriculum  and tempered by the experience of the instructor.  So that made it very attractive for me to go there.Very good. I wanna ask a follow up question and I'm not looking for  maybe specifics about the YEDI programs and teachers per se,  rather as you were going through that yourself.Did you find a temptation  almost weekly, maybe to change something to pivot to? And, and how does that enter into your mind? Because I think a lot of entrepreneurs out there are, are always thinking, like, should I stay the course?Should I pivot? I gotta be,  you get all these different advice, you get opinions, you get it YouTube channels, you get YEDI instructors,  you should do this. She's like, how did you deal with that and what happened in your, your journey?Yeah, very good question, so  that like I said, the instructors  are tempering the academic knowledge with their practical knowledge, so it was easy for me to separate the reach from the shaft, if you like. I was able to see what I couldn't, couldn't apply.It was able to see my blind spots and go, oh my god,  I should have been paying attention to that, right, especially from a financial perspective like the financial course.And I think most entrepreneurs would shy away from the financial, from the legal. We're not we're more most entrepreneurs are technically driven right there, technically capable, so that was very informing, so this deciding what to deploy and what not to deploy in, in the business as I Learned.It was  a challenge was a challenge because  you have a flywheel effect in any business. And if you start knocking its equilibrium, you're gonna send it off in all kinds of directions and potentially employ the process.So I was very thoughtful about not coming back and going, hey,  YEDI, we we Learned this, and from now on it shall be forever more, we do it this way, cause you will blow up your team, right. So, so I, I drip fed, if you like  the information, then slowly integrates it in.So rather in coming in, just saying,  here's the switch now we're going that direction. So it is very it was very easy to find the information that was applicable to me and to the business because of the instructor's delivery.But honestly, because of their delivery, I could leave stuff on the shelf that would never apply to me, and take the stuff that did apply  reminds me of a famous saying by Bruce Lee.Yeah, cause he taught mixed martial arts before mixed martial arts was a thing. He always told his students, I mean like according to the book, he said, take what you take what is necessary and discard the rest, right, like, essentially take what you like in need, but get, don't be afraid to throw the other stuff, right.And that was unheard of at that time, because back in the day, any traditional thing,  traditional art, whether it's, you know let's say calligraphy or, you know doesn't have to be martial arts.But it's like, teacher say student do right. He's like, you don't question, you just do this right the way it's been done for hundreds of years.Right, so for someone to say, like, no, actually you can be take what you like and discard the rest, and modify and play and, and cross train. It's essentially like entrepreneurship. He was an entrepreneur in that regard and creating something.I found that interesting,  so I'm going to shift back to your story, and  some entrepreneurs out there get advice about how important advisors are mentors.Uh huh uh maybe it's the board members themselves, maybe it's staff,  how do you know  who to share the information with and who not to in terms of the levels, there's, there's the contractors, there's stuff. Is there one person, is there five people?How do you decide who you're gonna bat those ideas off of before you implement them? Well, I think  your previous statement before your question was the answer besides your.It's a buffet, yeah, and thankfully we have that here in Canada. Like you have a buffet of opinion. You have a buffet of informed or uninformed people. And I listen to all  and take what I need and discard the rest.But, but that filter is  the thing that allows me to do that is that I ultimately pay the price. If I'm wrong,  I'm not putting it on anybody else. If I'm wrong,  right?It's, it's my business that suffers. If I'm wrong, it's not your business, it's not your paycheck, it's my business. The profit line goes up or down based on my decision.So  I listen to everybody  and apply what I think will work, and  like every other entrepreneur wrong most of the time,  but you got to keep going you got to keep correcting, you got to keep going digging. Yeah, yeah, it is, it's we live in a such a rich world in terms of information and content.I mean YouTube YEDI,  like,  wow,  like just wow,  like, like from, not from only seeing one book on the shelf in the library in my hometown, right to what's available now is like, oh man, if I was living in this world back then, right?Haha. But yeah, you are still taking advantage of what's available to you today, which is fantastic. Yeah, yeah this is Rick.Yes, very good. I want to ask a little bit about  the company demo for your rental. How long, how many years has been in operation? So I have had a demolition company since about 1990,  one or so, and I've had a few various incarnations of that, but Demo Fireno has been around since 2018.Okay. So in that case, I'll let you answer as you like. My question is,  what type of interesting or unique innovations have you either seen in the industry or have you implemented yourself?Maybe something that you, again, you thought it's outside of the box. You got some advice from a dream or whatever resource and you tried something and maybe was a bit different, but it worked.Right. So one of the things, an overarching thing that we're deploying in our business is a lean methodology from lean manufacturing from Japan.And  it is  quite rightly empowered  the staff. So they're now no longer gambling, we're no longer dealing with an authority in the business. We're dealing with processes in the business.So that, that is absolutely one of the biggest things that we've brought in to  empower, like I said, empower our teams. They're so  capable.Once empowered  little lean methodology,  some of the things were trying and experimenting with that hasn't been done in the industry. So  one of the things  we developed is  a shredder  that allows to shred demolition debris.Initial thoughts were to do that so that we could improve productivity on site. But then I partnered with another  entrepreneur,  Lexi, from Rise Home,  and  he was trying to,  uh, create  soil admateures.  I had demolition debris. So we got together, we applied for an N SERC I N  s E R C grant.Okay, I don't know that one. I'm not, yeah, I probably got the acronym wrong too. But it's basically scientific research grant  through Seneca College. And we were awarded the grant. Nice.So we take we took some of our shredded demolition debris, brought it into a lab environment and they come up with different recipes or formulas. And we're now growing basil and arugula in the lab.Nice. The next level of that is to take the plant  and test it for  heavy, heavy metals, right? Things like that. So we're at we're at that stage now. So they're testing for heavy metals to see if it'll be edible, right? It's nice and green, but it may not be edible, right?Right, those are hardy plants. Yeah, that's why you can't chew on those. Yeah, they're structural plants.Yeah, so, so so there are some of the things we're doing that I don't think any other demolition companies doing, and it's true partnerships, it's true forward thinking, it's true the idea of  when I decided to build a shredder,  everybody said no everybody said no to me.Every Canadian, every North American manufacturer I went to said no, not in their wheelhouse, they're not going to do it. I finally found a,  a guy  in, in Germany  who was Romanian  to build it for me and ship it over to me.Right, that's like  300 pounds of metal, right, right right. And  the challenge with that was then I got a European spec motor with a European spec controller that doesn't work in Canada. So then I solve that problem after paying full pop right for the, anyways, you just keep going.So when I built a shredder, I had no idea  that Lexi from Resume Environmental would be in the wing, saying, hey,  why don't we grow stuff with your stuff? And I met him through networking through the Toronto Secularity Network  ECN.Okay,  so obviously networking is very important. I was going to ask how you how you super important. Yeah, right yeah, you're, what is this six degrees of summer separation, that's what they say, it's what Kevin Bacon says.Right, right, so, you know it's really about meeting people, talking to people, sharing, sharing the same mindset or find people who share the same mindset.If you're in the wrong room you're in the wrong room but you gotta go out right, gotta go out I want to talk a little bit about the idea of partnerships and joint ventures.I think a lot of entrepreneurs out there might be interested to know more. A lot of us entrepreneurs have this opportunity where you're talking to someone you meet, they've got an idea, suddenly the sparks are flying, you know we could do this together.Yes, um,  and then that question comes up, well, how do we structure it? Is this something written on a napkin? Is this do we call it a joint venture? Do, do one of us hire the other initially and just keep it a contract?So, so tell us about the process of how you thought about this, and what you ultimately decided on doing  in terms of this, this  shredder.Right,  so you're right, is a complicated process, very complicated. Uh,  I, I failed in that regard to several times, uh,  started out with, uh,  business relationships that didn't work out.They didn't end in, in, uh,  in a tragic way, but they didn't work long term. So eventually find, finding like minded people with  what is a similarity of symbiotic relationship where, where where works for everybody. But still there's so many uh, so many forces at play.And any  business landscape, not to mention relationship landscape that you never know what's coming next, right? So I move forward with an open, open book, an open heart. And I keep adjusting it as the as the relationship evolves, as the business landscape evolves, right?I don't think it's a certain forget in, uh,  thing with relationships constantly maintaining it very much like a marriage, very much like dating. You've got to be talking to each other, you've got to be adjusting to each other.You've got to be finding alignment or understanding murderous misalignment and making an agreement that, that that's acceptable or not acceptable  moving forward. I think that when you,  and not to bash anybody, but I think when you get lawyers involved, it gets super complicated. And if you can move forward in the spirit of pursuing a common goal  and let the legal stuff  manage the risks are supposed to manage the relationship. I think that's the way to move forward.Well, following up on what you just said, I tend to think of joint ventures like dating and a partnership like marriage. And obviously, it's more complicated to dissolve a marriage as it would be a partnership.So I think it is attractive for some people to initially start with a joint venture and then see where it goes. Then maybe form a solid right later on.And even, even in that joint venture, people have to have some structure, and sometimes the emails that go back and forth are absolutely fine. They're actually they're legally fine, and other people want more, more meat potatoes to the to the documentation.Right. But I, I I find, in my opinion, maybe you share the same that the joint ventures are, are easier to, to start and to,  as it's almost like doing a pilot project. Let's just do it as a joint venture.Let's agree ahead of time on the on the split, right, right, who's putting in what, what skin in the game, and then from there, let's just see how it goes. Yeah, so, so that's exactly how we started out with Rise Home. We came up with a split, yeah, um they needed us, we needed them. We didn't divvy up the potential spoils of the relationship, because nobody knows they're gonna be there or not, right. And  one thing that  I do some competitions on the weekends and stuff like that.One of my race partners said, he said you know when you when you get a win,  you've trained for it, but you've never planned for it.You can't plan for the win. You got your training, your process, your, your steps towards it are, are good and strong, you might get the win,  you're not guaranteed the win.So the same with joint friendship, joint ventures, the same with partnerships. You're not guaranteed to win, but you definitely have to put in good structure and good training together, right, as super that, that's it, and as long as that's going well, you'll feel it, you'll feel the harmony, you'll feel the vibes,  and I know that things are going well,  good, good good good.A related topic, and I think it's something you have dealt with, I'm sure is employee versus contractor,  right, and so again, for entrepreneurs out there, some people are, they want to hire somebody or whatever industry it is, right,  and they may have to decide, is this a person, an employee or a contractor? How do you decide? And, and in general, what's, what's what's better?Right,  so again, the legal landscape kicks in, and CRA kick in pretty strong there. So you have a whole  slew of, of liabilities with respect to an employee and same with a contractor.So you have to be careful to keep the two separate. So for, from, from our perspective, a contractor who comes to work for us has to have their own business entity, has to have their all their legal ducks in a row, has to have all their insurance ducks in a row,  and has to be  compliant with our performance objectives and our brand objectives  objectives.So, so we don't want them polluting our workforce, and we don't want them polluting  our,  our team environment. We, we have to be sure that there's alignment there.We also have to assure there's an alignment with our clients. I mean ultimately your client pays your Bill, right, right, so, so we with contractors, it's very hard in the construction world  to pre qualify them. There's no licensing, there's no standard within the industry that says, oh, this is an a level, B level, it's all market, sorry, that sounds like a business opportunity, right, yeah, it is absolutely is, if you like imposing standards,  entrepreneurs tend not to  correct, hire someone else to do is take a car alone.Yeah, so, so so it's very hard to qualify them, but again, over time, you start with small things like joint ventures, you start with small things, and you learn  where  the pluses and minuses are in the relationship, and you're just according me, and  ultimately  it's fit again.It's dating it's back to dating if you're good at dating, you'll be good at entrepreneurship. Honestly, you will be. Yeah, so, so  contractors and employees,  if you have any entrepreneurial spirit, and most immigrants do,  it's very hard for them to be an employee. So I would respect that  at the same time, I would ask them to come to the table with  a mature business offering versus I want to be an employee, a contractor, not an employee. They have to inform themselves a lot more, understand what the risk is, understand what they have to deliver, cause  we're their client now, right. So they have to deliver to us their client,  and as the most people don't cross that bridge, they're technically capable but business wise lacking.It's an interesting perspective that you're bringing, you're letting the entrepreneurs out there know that they have to decide themselves what's best for their business. Do they essentially, do they  want  employees or contractors, and why?And then when you're doing the interviewing, making sure that, that person  is, is, sort of fit to be the contract that they're advertising itself to be.Yes, so the new interview becomes quite important. I think very, and, and the risks to you,  you on the client relationship, but  a contractor has no obligation to maintain that,  and might even portrait client,  right, a big risk right a big risk right and you, no matter how many waivers are in da sign, it doesn't matter doesn't count, right, so the non, non compete laws  is countered by the right to work clause,  right, it's a wash, yeah,  and who's going, yeah,  anyone client  on a on a small contractor basis is not worth the money to legally defend it,  right,  right, so you, you end up in a bit of a fistfight or bloodbath with the whole thing, right, and you better off not going into the ring, cause nobody's gonna win, win.Everybody's gonna get a bloody nose. What's the point? Your advice, so, so just  clear the fire, right?Yeah, I got lucky once, uh, there was there was an incident where there was a,  um,  person who was working for me, and at the end of the day, we had a disagreement about whether what the relationship was  as a joint venture or other. Was it employee versus, you know contractor?Right, anyway, to  what happened was luckily for, for us, and this goes along your idea of the lawyers who, you know can be expensive and all that stuff.And  we didn't have to use lawyers because CRA was able to actually actually judge our, our situation. They interviewed him, interviewed me, ask questions, basically based on the, the bullet points they have in terms. This is what a contractor is, this is what an employee is.And based on the majority of that, I ended up I ended up winning that situation.Um, and there was, I had to spend zero money on lawyers, and so I always wanna pass that on to entrepreneurs out there that Siri somewhere hot and all that mess of a website has actual bullet point listed, yes, of employee versus contractor.Oh, they absolutely do, yeah, yeah yeah, so super important that your contractor have other clients.Hmm, that's one of the qualifying critique right for them to be, and they have to bring their own tools they have to bring their own tools and supply their own tools reliable for all their own safety, right or PP,  their own training.Yeah, yeah they can set their own time, right, right, and they deliver projects, that's it,  but,  yeah, like you said, Siri has qualifying criteria, and if you if you end up consuming that contractor with 100%  of their workload, you end up becoming an employer, right, right, and so once again, just turning this on to the entrepreneurs out there who may have whatever industry they're in. They may decide to hire contractors at first, because maybe it's easier.Of course, they're getting poisoned, but if you and I guess I guess we're talking to the to the founders here, so if you start micromanaging them, and tell them do this do this according to this.Now you're making them an employee, right, and you're gonna get, yeah, to change that has to be outcome base, right, right, yeah, yeah and, and important that the other contractor have  employees as well, hmm,  that they, they should have some level of,  and, and, like, team members on, on their staff.Right, right, yeah,  interesting. Um, let's go back to your business demo for your Reno. Um, what do you what can you tell us is maybe the near future, anything in the next, you know 6 months to 6 years, anything new and interesting on the horizon, any expansion, any innovation.Okay, great stuff, so happily  our, our team members are all embracing the lean methodology, so we'll keep continuous improvement as part of our culture.Now very happy with that. I think that's a living breathing entity  and, and should be,  uh, one of the things that were,  I guess we're wrangling with at the moment is AI.Hmm, so just this morning had a call from an AI  recruiting agency, and they said, oh, we will find the best employees for you. So we're, we're is all hands on in our world.So I asked the  salesperson how would they do that? Oh, we have AI review their resume. Hmm, okay great,  so how does that give me a better candidate?Well, it powers and decides, and it does all this other stuff. I said,  okay, but you do know that every one of those  applicants are using  AI to generate,  right? So one is fighting the other, right?And I said ultimately, it's a wash ultimately it's a wash and the only thing we can do in a trade,  and particularly in trades is see that person in action. So we're trying to solve that puzzle.So in terms of innovation, one of our recruiting innovations is to bring potential team members to a tryout day.All good. And we have, if you will, workstations  where they rotate amongst workstations and  it's self selecting, like you proclaim your level of competency  and you're allowed to show that in that moment. So we will trade them through.Most recently, we worked with George Brown College with their pre apprenticeship program  for a construction craft worker.And they came out and  they were shocked to learn that  what's happening in the classroom is slightly, just  slightly removed from what's happening in the field. Construction is very demanding.It is very demanding. It's very hard to replicate it in a classroom. You will learn the skills with how to apply them in different environments that you can cut a piece of wood  straight  in a in a classroom, in a workshop, you want through a job site, well, there's no bench anymore, right? The wind is blowing,  it might be rain, right? The,  the tool you have may or may not have a good blade on it.There's so many other variables that enter into the equation once you get into the field, right? And that's true in every trade, so  it was very,  very educating for us and for them. And it's one of the innovations we have for recruiting is that we've gone beyond resume.We don't ask for resume, we ask you to come and try out, try and come and prove it. Put your money where your mouth is.Well, yeah, and it's to be fair to them and to be fair to, to, to us. Because if we ask a team member to go  do something they're not capable of, right, that's, that's not right, right.We're trying them in the deep end, right? Construction has high risk factor for injury and accidents. We don't want to do that. If someone is uncomfortable working on a 3 story chimney, we don't want to find out when they're on top of the chimney.No, right, for sure, right, someone's uncomfortable  carrying a certain amount of weight, we want to know ahead of time, keep them safe.Yeah, right, sure, make sense. Uh huh normally I ask the entrepreneur guests, I say, what's your secret sauce is the sandwich has it as a secret sauce, but it sounds to me like you've already answered that the innovation is obviously the lean  process you've incorporate, which is kaizen essentially.Yes, of course, to use improvements  and then of course, this, this unique interview process where they get to do the trial by fire.I suppose I love I love that. So that's amazing. And people responding to it and your teams on board, and it's, yeah, it's implementing our team members come out, they're part of the  trial day.So not us, right,  as  not management per se. It's our team members or crew leaders are there, right? And they get to assess  and it's very informed because they get to also pass on some, some tips to the candidates as well, right?And it's, it's very, what do you call that word or it's not a top down process, is more of a interaction  between us and them flat.Yeah, yeah, it's obvious to you. Yeah, it's obviously, like, if we ask you to take out, like, one of our tasks is to take out  nails out of a piece of wood, which is something we do in demolition all the time. But those nails,  the one thing about Canada is there so many nails. You go to Home Depot, see how many nails are on the shelf.Yes, so  you've got a buffet of nails and a piece of wood. Right, so understanding  the strengths and weaknesses of each type of nail, how to approach it, how to pull it out can become very frustrating in a timed event in front of some level of assessment.Right, so it's, it's very simple, but a very real  test. I love it I love it by the way, we surprised you to learn that I did roofing for three years when I was a good man.I dealt a lot with different types of nails, yeah, heavy things to carry up ladders on roof, so,  yeah, yeah, it was  educational, yeah, yeah, has also a good workout every year, yeah, for sure.Well, young man, why not right do it when you get some money? Uh, yeah, it was great, my Belleville days, yeah, so Patrick, our time is out. Thank you so much for sharing.Thank you. I think this interview,  I think that we got more into a lot of how an entrepreneur thinks in some of the spirit of entrepreneurship, which I think the audience really enjoy.So that was great, I really enjoyed. I Learned some stuff myself, and if people wanna find you or ask you follow questions, would it be LinkedIn or where would you like to find?Find my profile on LinkedIn under Patrick Mccormick  demo for your Reno is on LinkedIn, Instagram,  a lot of  good content on Instagram if you want to understand the culture of the company. And of course, we have a website demo for your Reno. Com, com.Thank you very much, Patrick. Thank you, Rick, it's been a pleasure, pleasure. Thank you for watching and be sure to subscribe on YouTube or wherever you check out your podcast until next time. Keep turning small bites into big wins.